"Jumping" in PvP
 

I haven't really done PvP a lot until lately, but since I have started I've become pretty familiar with "jumpers," in other words, people who jump around constantly, circling you, murdering you while you can't even touch them. Before today, it annoyed me and I thought it was unfair, but after today, it makes me FURIOUS.

I ended up in a mayhem match with a level 18. No sweat right, a 40 vs. an 18? Welp, the guy starts jumping and promptly proceeds to kick my butt. I go at him again, and once again, I have my butt handed to me. Realizing it was pointless to even TRY to fight this guy, I stand still and flip my coin. He then proceeds to tell me I need to "stop crying" and fight. Well, anybody who knows me knows I have an EXTREMELY low tolerance for this kind of bull. I kept standing there, letting him give me a few more less than friendly comments and finally reported him (knowing perfectly well he probably won't get the boot).

My question to all you lovely people of POF is this: how can I do this "jumping"? I will NEVER use it in PvP because to me, it seems as much like cheating as glitching. However, I would LOVE to know how this works so when I come across one of these people, I can give them a dose of their own medicine.

Rest assured, next time I see someone jumping in PvP, I will do the worst thing you can possibly do to another pirate in the game... absolutely nothing.

YES! I did PVP once and this guy was jumping up and down all around me hurting me and i couldnt get to him so i yelled the daylights out of him we ended up talking for the rest of the time....

im an expert jumper.
Have auto run on, Always hold right click to change angle and circle the enemy And press Q, E to go to the left or right.

Haha. I bet that was a very interesting conversation. ;)

Honestly i find jumping/running/voodoo doll-ing and other stuff like that in PVP to be childish and noobish. Stand yer ground and fight like a pirate!

Its kinda hard to jump but i agree, staff and doll is very noobish

I agree with ye mate. Unfortunately, not everyone feels the same as we do.

<-------jumper in training

Never much of a pvp'er meself, but lately I have entered some matches to view the same thing. A pirate that stands his/her ground has no chance against these jumpers. As soon as their health goes down (if ya can get it down) they are off and you are left chasing after a Jumping Bean. It's useless to even try to defeat these jumpers because ya know ya can't win...Like I said I'm not much of a pvp'er...because of the glitches so many use. Now with this added feature....don't invite this pirate to any matches cause the invites will be turned down.

I have encountered more than a few "jumpers" in pvp I find the best solution is to throw siege at my own feet it always kills them before me.

Hmmmmm
 

Good to know..will pocket that for future reference...just in case..

Personally, if a level 18 has figured a way to win (minus macros and glitching, that is) a PvP against a level 40, then he deserves it!

What fun is PvP if you can determine the outcome before you go in? "I'm level 40 and you're level 18 so I will win. You must fail because you are lowlier than I am."

The key is to figure out how you can overcome their better PvP ability.

I agree with Bart... its not really cheating since you're not doing anything that isn't allowed in the game. So you jump? big deal. As Bart said, not glitching, not using macro (not like you could use it to your advantage).... well then you're not cheating either. Just gotta learn how to fight it, its sorta a better PvP ability since... you are staying within the games rules yet you are able to win. Last time I checked Disney NEVER said jumping wasn't allowed in a pvp... if it was how come you can?

What happens if both people jump? does someone win or do you both jump around till your tired of it?

Question is if both can do it does it ruin the game?

If you're a 40, you could probably Blast an 18 down anyway. I agree with Bart.

if both do it, its kinda hard to aim

Stick to the code......fight like a real Pirate! Could you imagine seeing Pirates jumping and bouncing all over the place in a real fight? In fact...I don't recall seeing that in the POTC movies either. Draw your Cutlass or Dagger and fight....face to face.

:degen:

Welp, we had an agreement of just blades, and regardless of him hopping around like a flea, I honored it. Also, its obvious that jumping isn't "cheating" but it also OBVIOUSLY gives an unfair advantage to the one that can jump. And if you've actually been slaughtered by someone you have no prayer of hurting, you probably agree that it's bull.

EXACTLY. If you can't play how it's meant to be played, then just don't play. Or play with other guys that play like you. I fully intend to do that myself from now on. I'm done with the jumping mess. The 18 guy beat another 40 right after me. Tell me he's being fair...

Actually it is sorta fair. Sure, the lvl 18 may have beat two lvl 40's... but really, a 22 lvl advantage and all he/she is doing is jumping? If you don't know how to jump, yes, it may be unfair in your opinion but its not unfair at all. Just because you don't know how to or refuse to... doesn't mean that the other player has to take an easy on you, they are simply using something with in the rules that they so happen to be able to do to win. Tell me how a 22 lvl difference is fair...

It isn't a bad pvp when both people know how to jump... its just a lot more challenging IMO. What would you rather have though... 2 people killing each other so many times just standing still or 2 people moving around, putting up a fight and having less kills?

Also you have to think... not everyone has the same skills. One person could have points in combos, the other in passives, combat, throwing (so on...) skills. Both pirates going head to head would obviously result in the first person (with combos) coming out in an unfair win. Moving around is just a way to avoid taking a lot of damage and putting up a fight IMO.

Well, when I recall Jack Sparrow (not a real pirate, but certainly appropriate example for a POTCO issue) in the first movie, he held a woman hostage, using her for a shield, swung around on a rope, hid behind a statue, and won by cheating against Will Turner ("Pirate").

Seems like bouncing is appropriate.

It is a glitch that Disney does not sheathe the weapon when the jump starts.

It is a glitch that Disney allows full-strength attacks from the air.

It is a glitch that Disney allows attacks from the air at all.

Alas, they do. They also allow instant desolation (etc.) So I don't PvP. Being "good" at PvP means only that you are good at glitching, not at fighting (certainly nothing pirate-y about these glitches. No rum!)

To do this glitch, press AND HOLD the spacebar down. Movement variants are QD or AE also held down, tapping W, or right-mouse button + Q or E. The best exercise for practicing this exploit, is to sail to Devil's Anvil and practice on Jack the Monkey.

so what? in real life i jump with a bat and wing the bat and im glitching? lol
Jumping is a skill not a glitch, Glitching is a skill yes but jumping isnt a glitch.

Please, in real life, try it. (Against an inanimate object, preferably.) The force you hit it with is less than 1/10th (or less than 100th if you've never practiced it) than if you hit it while solidly connected on the ground.

Regardless what the physics of the situation are in real life, the three bugs/glitches/exploits I mentioned above are defects in the game.

ok brb gonna try it on my sis, lol jk
It would make sence tho if the damage was 10% less or 5% less when the attack was launched in mid air, but remember, you cant use sweep, brawl, that 3rd skill, or bladestorm in mid air.

I've had to deal with people who do this when in PVP.
When players do this I'll use flaming skull so I can attack them.

But I think going up against random people who may do this is a waste of time. It'd be much more convenient if there were custom PVP matches. I would really like to do a cutlass only PVP match.

You mean 95-99% less effective. But any weapon out, should be put away to jump. Either preventing the jump or putting the weapon away for you (on each bounce of the jump) would mitigate the exploit.

Likewise, your health should not regenerate while you have a weapon out. Instead, when in combat, your health regenerates faster (if you are attacking) than if you put your weapon away (if not being hit in both cases.) Obviously another bug/glitch/exploit. But hey, all things being equal...

Yeah, I don't PvP. Doll, dagger asp, instant bladestorm/sweep/desolation, useless hex-eater, jumping, health regen...Bah. It isn't about combat, it's about glitching.

yeah... cutlass only, Certin weapon(s) only, no tonic, ect.
Would be awsome
Where did disney so tho that jumping is a glitch?
Ima go to disneyland and jump, a guy will come up to me and say, oooo your glitching, and ill say ooo you toniced

First off, a lvl 22 difference is definitely not fair, and I never said it was. The guy wanted to PvP me, so I did. I PvP'd against both a lvl 13 and a lvl 8, and although it was ridiculously unfair, we ended up talking and friending each other.

PvP (and the whole game in general) are meant to have fun. I can win, or I can get murdered and still have a good time. The issue isn't winning or losing, it's having an enjoyable game experience. And anybody who disagrees with this takes the game way too seriously. Unfair advantages, or glitches as Edward says, take away from the game experience, not just for me, but a LOT of people.

Secondly, people can move around and put up a spectacular fight without jumping. I PvP'd a lvl 32 and she absolutely SLAUGHTERED me. She moved CONSTANTLY, but never left the ground. Now THAT is skill, and it did not upset me in the least. Just because someone isn't jumping doesn't mean they are just standing still hacking.

I absolutely agree. I mean, don't get me wrong, I've met some great and respectable people in PvP, but generally, it's all about glitching. Which, I guess this means I shouldn't be getting upset about it, but STILL. It's frustrating to those of us who want to have a good clean PvP game.

Well honestly I can't disagree with you about it taking away from the gaming experience of others... I myself don't like to PvP against jumpers but eh.. not a glitch, and I like the challenge. I myself prefer not to jump in PvP unless its unfair.... more than one opponent against me, or the person is just flat out cheating. That lvl 32 who slaughtered you in a pvp by moving around and not leaving the ground... thats the same way I prefer to pvp. But theres little difference between jumping around an opponent and circling around them... you still end up having to be quick enough to hit them.

Also I know I said that not jumping is pretty much standing still... I thought you were pretty much saying that moving around is unfair which it isn't in the slightest.

lol sven you AND andrea just 2 vs 1 me and u jumped

LOL :D gg btw Swash.

Jumping in pvp is both good and bad to me. I'm not the greatest at it, so its useful on average players, I try not to jump, but its easier to sometimes. It's not that fun when you're pvping someone who's realyl good at though.
I guess it just depends on who you're facing.

First thing I noticed on this, is why be suckered into something like this in the first place. Anyone says I will fight you, but all that can be used is cutlass,,,,,,,,,well umm, hello. I would recommend never agreeing to such rules.

A number of posts here state Jack Sparrow did this and that,,, he also didn't just use one weapon the other guy wanted.

I saw this a few times during the curse, those siege bombs really stopped what I ran into, even taking the hits myself with 5 points toughness, mattered little to me. Many times more even character level. Aimed bane shot does not bad either, but with cutbacks pistol is pretty lame, even with the 15 points in damage.

I haven't seen but little pvp for a long while now, but this originally started with the jump cutlass attack with a glitch, that would hit the target across the room. Last I tested it out that was gone, but sure jumping has gotten more work by some to make it effective. Looking back to in the day, there were many bugs in the pvp with this.

There are other factors also, like how much in decreasing stun time. I would bet it likely this was a level 18 character that has max cutlass and probably only skill worked on. The huge decreases they took from unlimited characters in pvp, looks like the aim for everyone being practically the same no matter what level has been reached, lol.

I would recommend to never fall into these categories of you can only use this, whats next only grape shot on svs or something, pff. Its generally wanted for a reason, and in no way to your benefit. I can't say there is frankly glitches in this as much as technique many others haven't mastered. I would be leery there are other glitches in effect though.

I did find it funny all the complaints when grenades and pistol did descent damage by the one skill wonders.

In real life, I wouldn't have trouble watching a person running with how slow the screen spans. One shot with a pistol between the eyes would end lame attacks. One hit with a grenade would result in picking up pieces of opponent. With the Disney's view of everything should be even, it is quite realistic that a veteran opponent, should be even to nothing more than a child. As well as the well protected cutlass effects versus a bullet going through a opponent's head.

Would be nice some of these things Disney wouldn't protect, and actually make it a bit more realistic. Then again we would of seen content and notoriety increases half a year ago if that was the case, instead of decreases to already earned skills.

I'd like to see a pirate-style PvP: set in the old warehouse of the first movie (not the POTCO old warehouse) with cutlass, pistol and dagger only (no viper's nest silliness, but throwing dirt, YES) with no attacks while airborne, but jumping/swinging allowed as tactical maneuvers.

Going outside of that, with doll, staff, grenades and "special" skills makes it freaky. Having parry and block moves (not passive "skills" - ha!) would make it strategic and exciting. As it is now, it is counter-intuitive, even when you've fully mastered all weapons...because the combat setting and common tactics are just too strange and abnormal. To boot, it is also wildly unrealistic. (Being unrealistic isn't so bad - but being bizarre is.)

Ah well, off to sink more ships...

Yeah, I did jump in that PvP but so did you. This thread said that jumping is unfair... I said I prefer to jump when its unfair. Besides... Andrea barely hit you :laughks2:

Ok....but we are talking about here is jumping around like a monkey the during the entire duel. You just don't see that....well, unfortunately in the game you do.

:mybadki6:

just a thought, dont pvp ,but use your doll.Only have to hit em once to attune then voodoo the heck out of em a level 18 will be in trouble quick if hit with a full blast of life drain and ye be gettin healed.

Hmm... my boy plays Zelda Twilight Princess (or whatever) and jump attacks are a skill in the game.

In the movie Troy, I recall several scenes of Achilles using jump attacks.

DId a developer tell you that jumping and attacking are a glitch, or is that just something you'd like to be true?

Jason Davy, I myself am a "jumper". My first encounter with a jumper was one of my first pvps. I felt the same way as you did. However, you have to understand that this isn't "cheating", "glitching", or "hacking". It's simply a SKILL removed from other games and placed into Pirate PVP. In any First Person Shooter games, it's in your best interest to use QWEASD (or any variation of that) to your advantage in dodging enemy attacks. Why should PVP be any different? Because we're not using guns?

Anyway, in order to "jump", since become familiar with the QWEASD keys:
Q= shafte left
E= shafte right
W= move forward
A= turn left
D= turn right
S= move backwards

Please understand that jumping also requires hand-eye coordination, a skill that isn't easily learned. You must also keep the Right-Mouse button held down at all times and drag it left or right to keep aim on your opponent. If you don't have aiming abilities, TOUGH LUCK. Don't complain that you can't hit us. In addition, the right-mouse button gives A & D the same effect it would if one used Q & E. Therefore, some people omit A & D keys in PVP. Auto-running is another variation that some people choose.

All in all, I just have to say, if you can't be a man (or woman) in PVP, then stay out of the arena. If you choose to do a Lookout, that's an all-out match. Rules can't possibly have been set in before hand, so doll a jumper, staff a jumper. But if your opponent approaches you with a set of rules ie: Blades & no tonics, you can safely assume that he/she is a jumper. Now, you have the god given right to say no thanks. If you choose to accept, don't cry when you lose 10-0.

Have a nice day,
Jezi Hex / Vera


EDIT:
I would also like to point out that the reason "jumping" is in no way a glitch or hack is because:
1. the SPACE bar = jump. (complain to Disney if you think they should outlaw the Space bar)
2. the ESCAPE button = putting away weapons
3. F1 - F6 = choosing your weapons
4. qweasdr = movements
If you have any issues with these, see Disney. We're simply playing with what's given to us
So in reply to Edward Edgemenace, the fact that we're allowed to attack while jumping is NOT a glitch. I can just as easily circle my opponent WITHOUT the use of the space bar and own.

Jumping attacks are a part of the game and we use it every time we do sweep with cutlass. so it is not a glitch air attacks are part of the game

The level matching should never let a lv40 battle a lv18.
The jumping you describe sounds like a cheat I have witnessed. The other pirate was able to hit me(with his cutlass) from across the map skipping around faster than I could track. Almost looked like a really laggy game and I could barely scratch him. I played him several times with other pirates and they were also asking how he was doing that.
If I remember correctly, the clan was the Jumping Kings.
All I could do was report him.

Bartholomew, what developer wants to admit what they did is wrong? Those are glaring, obvious defects in the game.

As I said to Swash, try it in real life. Set up a baseball on your son's t-ball stand near an outdoor stair, climb up 3-10 steps then jump at it and see if you can hit the baseball at all. The 1/20 times you actually hit it while you are in the air, your strike will have no power behing it at all. Stand on the ground next to it and you can take out a neighbor's window three blocks away.

But try not to hurt yourself, when you do this experiment.

OK OK...

Let's settle down here.

I don't want to have to close this thread, there are good points from all sides, and some useful information for those that don't have experience with PvP.

Debate opinions and not the people behind them.

Though I would conclue that in RL this style of fighting is nearly impossible - I believe sticking to the Game Mechanics should be the focus here.

This discussion is mixing "game mechanics" with "real life" - which has taken this thread off on a new direction... many things in the game are non-realistic - so jumping in PvP is no different.

Do I like jumpers? No - But I won't call jumping a glitch - a glitch is something that is intentionaly broken (like the invincibiltiy door glitch) - but jumping is just jumping :) I DO believe that jumping in the game should be shortened / lowered - but besides that - its real enough.

As it is - since this topic is quiet heated and required three cleanups already - if the points to just the game cannot be made the thread will need to be retired. Heated debate is good by me - just keep focused on topic and leave "real life" out of the conversation (since it isnt a proper comparison to game functionalty anyway).

hi. I have the same feelings about the jumping in pvp & i do not do pvp anymore becasue of it. I did take some "lessons" from a friend who jumps to help me understand it. They see it as a skill & art form & it is complicated. If you like, we can arrange to meet & i can tell you what i learned. Amanda o'mally. level 37, The Elite Few.

Well reading all this I have to put my 2 cents in just cause i want to put my 2 cents in.

There are no rules as to "How it's meant to be played". When you do an lookout, you are going to get what you get. If you want PVPs that don't include jumpers, then you need to ask ppl to PVP that don't jump.

Jumping in a PVP is more challenging than you think. And most jumpers would rather PVP other ppl that jump. If you don't Jump what is the challenge in standing there hacking at each other? The winner will be the one that has the best skills layout and the one beat can look that skill layout up and duplicate now that you can reallocate skills. Jumping is a challenge because the issue is aim. You have to be able to run, jump and aim. Some just run and skip the jumping around because the jumping slows you down a bit (well at least it does me).

I jump in PVPs with other jumpers. I hack it out with those that don't. There are a lot of things I don't like in PVP (Dolls, Staffs, Nades and Tonics). If you don't think the jumpers are 'fair". Well since when are Pirates supposed to be Fair?

As for the comment about both ppl jumping does someone win? Yes. I jump and sometimes i win and a lot of times i don't =).

Chele

I've seen several times that if you enter a lookout, you get what you get, etc etc etc. To clarify, I don't do lookouts. If I get an invite, I'll sometimes accept, and if someone in-game asks if I want to PvP, I'll often accept. My general point about the whole issue is this: if you are a jumper, jump with other jumpers for crying out loud. But when you get in a match where the other player OBVIOUSLY doesn't know how to jump or refuses to, it's disrespectful to continue jumping, ESPECIALLY when the non-jumper asks you to stop. I'll use the same response that was used above: if you're in PvP, be a man (or a woman) and fight fairly, and win or lose, make it fun for both players. And if a fair fight includes jumping (this means BOTH players are jumping) then by all means jump. But if you don't even have enough decency to respect another player, then just don't play.

Also, I like Edward's example about jumping and trying to hit the t-ball. Very true.

I don't jump. But then again, I don't PvP either. :D

I agree, it's kind of silly that Pirates would jump around like rabbits - or ninjas - not very piratey if you ask me. Stand your ground and fight like a man.

Simply don't accept random invites. Unless it's a PVP that you set up with someone, with the terms you like, you are just taking your chances, it's that simple. Ultimately the type of PVP you want can be controlled by you.

I DO agree with a lot of the points you made, that if you ask a jumper to stop that they should. I have been in PVPs with Jumpers where i have had an issue with something and asked them to hold for a sec and they do and ones that they don't. I've had the ones where i've been jumped by a crew (3 on 1) and in those cases i just log unless they agree to one on one (or one at a time).

I found the mayhems to be a lot of fun for both jumpers and hackers if they are big enough. (like 8 ppl in them)

Oh and as a PS for those shooting for the leaderboard - Unless Disney recently changed it (like with the new updates). All those pirates you see on the PVP Leaderboards, they are there because they LOST. I tested that theory out by PVPing with a friend where we agreed on who was going to win every match and who was going to lose. Guess which one was on top of the leaderboard the next day - Why the loser of course.

Chele

Like you, I have met jumpers who will agree to not jump if I ask them, and I gain a lot of respect for those people. But also, like you, theres always those who ignore you or those who gang up on you, and in those cases I sometimes log but I usually just stand still and flip my coin.

I've never been in that big of a mayhem, but it does sound like fun! :D

And thats very interesting about the leaderboards... VERY interesting... lol

Which is probably why I don't do PvP, actually I've never done PvP so my opinion may not count for much. I just don't see the point in standing there and letting someone hit me. When I fight NPCs, if I can help it I will try to run around and get behind them. When using the doll, I will kite them because, well, it's a ranged weapon. It may be the FPSer in me but I'd rather not stand there. In the movies, yeah I suppose they didn't jump around like monkeys but they certainly didn't just stand there and wave their cutlasses at each other.

As I said before, not jumping doesn't necessarily mean players just stand there hacking. Movement is great. Just standing there would indeed be boring. ;)

Alright, alright, alright, I want to get my 2 cents into this.

Back when I was a younger pirate, not very well associated with POTCO, I believed that jumping was completely unfair, and sometimes even cheating. But after some time, I began to realize jumping was not much cheating, but a strategy. Yes, I understand to some "non-jumpers" that Jumping may be considered cheating. But you must remember that things are considered cheating are

1) Glitching
2) Hacking
3) Macros

And so on, and so on. Now, let us run through that list and see if Jumping falls under any of that.

1) Glitching.
Jumping is completely based off of the PLAYER, not the GAME (well, besides the controls, for that matter.) A glitch is something that had existed within the game, yet jumping was BROUGHT INTO THE GAME by the PLAYERS. Therefore, you cannot fairly call jumping a glitch.

2) Hacking
Hacking is usually something that disrupts a program by using a computer to hack into said program using some method. While hacking is brought up by the players of the game, jumping does not in anyway effect the overall game. Do you have to use a special program to jump in POTCO? No. Do you have to use ANY hacking methods? No. Jumping is brought into the game by the GAMES OWN CONTROLS. Therefore, jumping is not hacking either.

3) Macros
Basically, same as hacking. The only way you can jump is through the controls, not a third person program.

So, I believe we have established that Jumping is not cheating. But I'm going to bring up a little more evidence why jumping is not cheating.

Remember the thread that said running away in SvS was cheating? Well, as you remember, running away was simply established as a TACTIC, not cheating. Jumping is ALSO a tactic/strategy. If jumping does not fall under the category of cheating, then just like running away in SvS, it should be established as a tactic/strategy.

You know, back in my prime, I would jump, and the only time I'd ask for no jumping is when I had a very bad lag. To me, if you can't stand people jumping, and just complain, best just chat with friends and level. Sure, PvP is fun, but it isn't every single thing that you can do.

Of course, just because we don't HAVE to PvP doesn't mean we don't want to. And if people can ask for "blades no tonics" games, then I certainly think we have the right to ask for "no jumping" games. It's disrespectful and inconsiderate to suggest that if we don't want to deal with jumping, then we just shouldn't PvP. And the only reason we "complain" is that a good number of people insist we agree to their terms (ie, blades no tonics) but when the issue of jumping comes into play, the jumpers get all defensive, claiming jumping is "a skill" and can be used regardless. Welp, wither and siege charge are skills too, so I'll consider that next time I encounter a jumper.

Jumping certainly is glitching: the exploitation of a known software defect in the game.

There is no excuse for weapons not being put away while in the air. There is no excuse for attacks being allowed while in the air. There certainly is no excuse for full-damage attacks.

It is a defect in the game which very clearly makes PvP one of the least likable areas of POTCO.

Cheating is using exploits against other pirates. Jumping (particularly non-stop) is cheating.

If the POTCO staff wanted to use pychics in the game I'm sure they would have.

I don't like jumpers but I don't think jumping and using a weapon at the same time is a glitch. There's no proof that it is in fact a glitch. If it was I'm sure Disney would have fixed it by now.

But I do think that we shouldn't be allowed to jump in PVP.

I'm not at all concerned about whether Disney wants to admit is a mistake (intentional or accidental.) That doesn't make it any less of an error, any less of a defect, any less of a bug, any less of a glitch. People that exploit the glitch against other pirates are cheating.

Rationalizing it to your own satisfaction, does not make it no longer cheating.

I'd just like to note that there are plenty of game-hindering glitches that Disney hasn't bothered to fix. ;) With that said, I don't believe jumping with weapons is a glitch so much as a severe defect in the game that ABSOLUTELY needs fixing. Actually... now that I think about it, is a "severe defect" and a glitch the same thing? Hmm... thought provoking eh?

I still don't see how it's a bug. What sort of error occurred that made jumping and using a weapon at the same time a glitch?
If you can use a weapon any other time then how is using it in the air any different? But I do agree that if you use a weapon in the air it should do less damage.

Since beta two I have been able to use a weapon in the air. I think even disney would have fixed it if it really was a bug.

If it's a bug tell me why.

I don't think jumping is cheating. I mean, if your opponent is going to attack you, I would get out of the way--- it's common sense.

A PvP match shouldn't be based on the strength of your weapons or health of your pirate. It should be based on the skill of the player.

Jumpers are annoying-- and that's the point. They're supposed to frustrate you.
A frustrated players could be easier to defeat than an player that is not frustrated.

Jumping is not used to be frustrating, nor is it used only to "get out of the way." This tactic is used by those who care about WINNING. Not about fun, not about fairness, not about respect. Just winning. When a tactic is unfair to other players, it ceases to be simply a tactic and becomes cheating.

Jumpings may not be used to be "frustrating" but by majority of the posts I have read... it apparently is to a lot if you choose to admit it or not. The reason for this thread being started was you were tired of people jumping in pvp... thus you were frustrated at the fact they keep doing so.

It is used to get out of the way... I agree that a lot who do this don't just do it for that purpose though. A lot who do are doing it for wins, yes. But its still a tactic never the less (those who are saying you shouldn't be able to jump with a weapon, you shouldn't be able to attack in the air... last time I checked POTCO is a GAME not REAL LIFE.) and it isn't just used by those who care about winning.

Not about fun? Not about fairness? Not about respect?

Last I checked PvP was two or more people fighting one another, that to some is fun.

It IS fair regardless of one person not knowing how to jump, it ISN'T fair if you ask the person to stop yet they refuse... but then again there are NO SET rules for pvp meaning pretty much, anything goes. If the people who are in the pvp AGREE to rules and one of them is "no jumping"... then yes, if the other does it it is unfair. However, if the other player refuses to abide by those rules... DON'T ACCEPT THE PVP... if your already in the pvp, LOG OUT.

The matter of respect... sure plenty of people who do jump don't care at all about their opponent but NOT EVERYONE IS THIS WAY.

You should word what you say a little better... you pretty much said anyone who jumps in pvp doesn't respect who they face, don't want to have a fun pvp, aren't fair, and only care about winning. I myself don't ALWAYS jump in a pvp and do admit it is tiresome at times but you can't say that EVERYONE who does this is pretty much a "cheater".

You also said before that someone whos moving around their opponent (I am assuming circling around so if I misunderstand then excuse me) is GOOD at pvp? If jumping in circles around your opponent is unfair... explain to me how doing the same thing minus the jump is unfair? Again, if I misunderstood, excuse me.

I apologize for any misunderstandings and areas where I have been unclear. I didn't mean to suggest everyone who jumps doesn't care about fun, respect, etc. As I've said in previous posts, I have great respect for people who stop jumping when asked. But the fact is that many... as in most... people who jump refuse to do anything BUT jump- therein lies my claim that they only care about winning.

Also, circling/running around on the ground is fair because it is possible to hit them with a blade. However, with jumping, it is (nearly) impossible to hit them (with a blade) unless you are jumping yourself.

I know what that you didn't really mean to suggest that everyone who does jump doesn't care about fun, respect, etc. but if someone chooses to jump even after asked to stop... its their choice in the end, they are good at it let them do it, can just log out if its really that big a deal.

Circling/running around is pretty much the same as jumping around them. It IS possible to hit them with swords both ways. If you take someone into a pvp and have them run circles around you and you rotate to attack them then have them do the same motion but this time JUMP... you will be able to hit them both ways. It just appears harder to attack the jumper since he/she is moving up and down as well as around. What I meant by take someone to a pvp... have someone stand infront of you, if they aren't jumping of course you CAN hit them... but if you tell them "hold down space", guess what... you CAN hit them as well even when they are IN the AIR.

Also, if you have problems with jumpers heres something I learned from pvping them many times. DON'T use the arrows to turn, use WASD. Right click on the mouse to adjust your aim as well. As simple as those sound they are a BIG help... being able to move in circles/jump doesn't have much to do with skill other than being able to aim for your opponent ;)

Lol, thanks for the tips. Usually I don't even try to fight jumpers, but next time I'll give that a try. :) And if it fails... perhaps wither. lol

lol, you're very welcome for those. If done correctly it shouldn't fail... I beat 2 jumpers in a 2 on 1 pvp (even if they were bad LOL... not gonna say any names ;) ), I also beat 5 members of one of this guilds forums in a 5 on 1 (not gonna say again LOL). If it does fail though... might I suggest some smoke grenades followed by a nice siege charge? rofl

The fact remains, that Disney allowing jumping as they do, is a bug.

I like how my words have been twisted over and over again by proponents of jumping, above. In their minds, they have fully rationalized their cheating, so not much more can be said. But consider what nearly every proponent has started with... "I used to think it was cheating, but" or "I originally thought jumping was cheating, but" etc. Only the die-hards have learned to deal with it - most people write PvP off as a waste immediately. Why? Because it is about counter-intuitive glitches; jumping is simply the easiest to identify.

Should an opponent be invulnerable in the air (as they effectively are now) or should they more realistically be an order of magnitude more vulnerable? OK, so that's yet another glitch with jumping that I didn't mention sooner.

Even in the movies, there is no way a pirate jumping can successfully pull off an attack. Dodge, evade, parry; sure. Land on someone? Sure. But that is nothing like POTCO jumping...damage isn't when the jump ends, it is when the attack is made.

Continuous jumping is preposterous. One jump per match might be reasonable. But such a daring tactic doesn't work twice.

Having a weapon out at all during a jump, rightfully should injure the pirate jumping. A work-around I suggested above, is to put the weapon away during a jump.

Having partial strength attacks from the air would leave the same impression for POTCO PvP: not worth even trying.

Jumping detracts enormously, from the PvP portion of the game, to the point that most people refuse to PvP, after trying it once or twice.

Notice how jumpers will say "no dolls" "no staffs" (at least the ones I've encountered). Gee, I wonder why...don't want to get chained down and life drained? Don't like Wither or Flame? How about a nice drop of Desolation?? LOL

Seriously....I think this horse has been dead for days...and we all still be kickin' it.....


:laughks2:

POTCO is my first, and only, foray into the world of MMORPG. Prior to POTCO I was only an online FPS player. Quake, DooM, Command and Conquer, etc, games that required fierce competitiveness and skill to even come close to winning. I still fire those games up occasionally just to get that rush going. And yes, there were glitchers/cheaters in those games as well but most of the time skill won out.

I do not like the PvP portion of POTCO because it feels like Disney is trying to incorporate some FPS gamestyle into an MMORPG. It just doesn't work, for me. I guess if I spent as much time just PvPing as I did learning the physics of Quake 1, 2, 3, & 4 I could get really good at it. but it is not worth it. There are much better games for testing your skill one on one. I don't feel that PvP 'fits' POTCO. It is too much of an attempt to placate players that just want to win at any cost against another player. Not to mention the cheaters.

On the other hand, the SvS portion of the game is exactly what POTCO should have. It matches a pirate's sailing skill, and his/her crew against other ships and crews. It 'fits' the game. Unfortunately, there are so many cheaters in SvS that it is not worth playing. Even though it is a good idea, it is basically worthless at this point because it is not about skill, it is about using exploits/glitches/cheats to win.

So, what it comes down to in the end is either you spend the time to learn the cheats/glitches/exploits of these sub-POTCO games, you play anyway and try to beat the cheat system, or you just play the game without PvP/SvSing.

No. Disney allowing jumping as they do - is bad judgement or bad design on their part - it is not a bug.

Because though they me be die-hards... its a game with bent psychics... a glitch is a break - and for the "third time" this is not broken - poor design - but not broken.

Ideas about reducing the effects of jumping is not "Fixing a glitch" - but about changing the current paramaters. and again - this I support as it makes it more 'real' - and maybe certain weapons not working when jumping would be 'real' and this is what they should focus on - but - its not broken currently, just bad design.

Which is the same as stating rules like "no tonics or swords only". If the game character can jump in the game - then they can jump. Period. No limits, rules, conditions. If the complaint is to adjust jumping in the game to more reasonable heights / distance - then thats one thing. Change the options to reduce height, only allow weapons which should be easily handled. (note here - we ARe playing a game with Voodoo Dolls and Staffs... it is a 'fantasy' world... it all just cant be world perfect).

---

Your one of the best of not the best glitch finders in the game Edward - but your definitions on what is a "bad design choice" vs a "glitch/bug" tend to meld together, espically when you've had a fustrating day :D

---

Now here is an area full of real gltches AND bad design.

VERY TRUE. In fact - its now glue its been mushed so bad :D

I agree Max, I can not classify this at all as a glitch or bug. I definitely can classify it as terrible design flaw with a combination of effects. Stun, moving, circling, jumping, and parameters to hit, and opponent to miss.

Other skills don't give such a grouping, in combination. People have skipped combos in cutlass and dagger when we were given a little freedom, people can't have today. This also is no glitch or even bug, but again a choice Disney made.

These choices by Disney has made many, many people upset. This the result of only one thing, the limitations Disney has made to all the characters especially in reductions to their skills. If other skills were increased to even out equality, rather than constantly GIANT reductions rather than slight adjustments, there wouldn't be such problems. Half damage to already out of adjustment skills makes just more out of adjustment.

What I believe it really comes down to, is go take a look at the dozens of polls. What is your favorite weapon type polls. Every time more people vote for cutlass = stun/jumping than any other skill. So in my mind its what most people want since that is what they keep voting for as their favorite thing.
I just happen to be one a few that never have put my interests in this myself, thus usually bottoming my lists.

Guess I had to get that in before the glue dried.

yes i HATE it when people do this, extrememly annoying... a lv 24 kicked my butt when i was lv 32... i told him to stop jumping, then, i guess upset that i dissaproved of this 'technique', which was probably the only way he knows how to pvp, he starts telling me im a baby, i cant fight and im too dumb to figure out how to do it

2 pirates fighting one another is fun. but using unnatural causes of the game to your advantage, ISNT. you can call it whatever you want, but either way, jumping is unfair, and should be fixed immediately


yes, but not everybody knows how to jump. a jumper should stop jumping if a person who doesnt know how asks them to regardless

You've got it exactly right Rackat. Unfortunately, although this is how it is, I think (almost) everyone would agree that it SHOULDN'T be this way. PvP and especially SvS should be areas of the game that people enjoy and are excited about, but unfortunately the constant glitching puts a damper on them. And people like me, well, we just PvP and SvS, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, but always just trying to make the best of whatever predicament we happen to be in at the present time.

I had the same thing happen to me Kraken. When I quit trying to fight, the little guy pounded me with insults. It upset me, I'm not gonna lie, but there's nothing we can do at this point. (except post about it on POF) ;)

I also agree with your points, regardless of whether you consider it a glitch or a bad design, it certainly needs to be fixed. And if all the jumpers would actually stop jumping when asked to, I personally wouldn't find it to be much of an issue. :)

Not this I can agree upon - along with the additon of Edward's suggestions of possibly not allowing certain weapons to work while jumping (note IMHO: jump = ok, hi-jump while swinging <> ok ;) ) would be a good adjustment.

As a programming professional, the most common working definition of a bug is "any unintended effect or behavior." In software testing, there is no distinction between design flaws and implementation flaws (as the fine line that separates them is so very blurry.)

Sorry, but jumping in PvP is a bug. In the movies (detached from reality) a jump is a single event used to avoid or evade or surprise. So, let me conclude one last time:

* Multiple jumps should not be allowed.
* Continuous jumping is absurd. A 5 minute recovery time after a jump should be required to successfully jump again.
* Players should be more vulnerable when in air (currently they are 100% invulnerable to most attacks, instead.)
* Attacks should not be permitted in a jump.
* Weapons should be dropped or put away during any jump.
* Drawing a weapon during a jump should result in injury to the jumper.
* If attacks unreasonably permitted, they should result in 1% to 10% of the original damage, with only 1% - 5% of the original hit ratio.

Because the POTCO implementation is so unbelievably counter-intuitive, most people hate PvP. It is about glitching, not about combat. If Disney were to admit they did it wrong and fix it, PvP might be worthwhile. But I don't ever expect to see such a rewrite of it.

Now, people exploiting the glitches, particularly the jumping category of glitches, would do well to remember what their early impressions were: it nags on your conscience because it is cheating to exploit these game defects (bugs) against other pirates.

But wait, what do I care? I don't PvP...seen enough of it, thank you very much. Only really irritates me when it splashes over into other areas of the game. (E.g. infinite ammo, invulnerability, invisibility, rapid-recovery, hex-eater discrepancies, dagger asp, distance attuning, uneven distance de-attunement, distance cutlass attacks, ambush settings, blinking, hyper-speed movement, lag-bombing, instant desolation/bladestorm/viper's net, etc. Oh, and jumping.)

It may kill me - but we're gonna come to a compromise dang'nabit! LOL :D I feel like were 'politicians' trying to get the wording right or something - except we aren't getting their pay scale ;) Of course - I dont play PvP myself because of jumping and other 'questionable manuvers', but I'm also being a realists to the fact that you just can't put cement shoes on players in PvP to eliminate all the 'infairness' to the game play...

See, allowable jumping in my view would not allow you to actually get 'over' a player (if jumping, you could only jump 1/2 the height of your pirates height at most). This removes some of the 'over jump' taticts players use right away. So, jumping over a player as it currently may allow (if thats the target of jumping) may be a bug - but jumping itself in PvP I don't believe to be. So just to narrow down the list on that view, my notes are below.


* Multiple jumps should not be allowed.
* Continuous jumping is absurd. A 5 minute recovery time after a jump should be required to successfully jump again.

- Jumping should be slowed down - hence the 'fly jumps' I see not just in SvS but in the game in general are wrong. But if were trying for some real world realisim here - you and I can jump multiple times - we just get more tired each time. If jumping was shortened / slowed with the height restriction mentioned earlier it would be more real (and vulnerable to attack... hence the next one...). Saying 5 minutes between jumps also sounds absurd, does it not? :)

* Players should be more vulnerable when in air (currently they are 100% invulnerable to most attacks, instead.)
* If attacks unreasonably permitted, they should result in 1% to 10% of the original damage, with only 1% - 5% of the original hit ratio.

- yes - in fact you should actually be MORE vulnerable in the air as this would be a weakness position. As for the ratio of weapon strike - thats a good point. Not sure if 1% is an accurate given - but I would agree to a weapon being able to do no more than 25-50% of its allowable damage to strike.

* Attacks should not be permitted in a jump.
* Weapons should be dropped or put away during any jump.
* Drawing a weapon during a jump should result in injury to the jumper.

- Since we are playing with some 'imaginary weapons' like dolls you cannot eliminate all weapons from jumps (if any... but referring back to the previous on weak attacks would be the balence here). And since I stated earlier you couldn't jump over the player - the attack would be more 'muted'. As for drawing a weapon - agreed - if you don't have it in hand, you can't pull it out in the jump (cause that would be too 'movie like', almost like the matrix or something wierd :) )

* infinite ammo, invulnerability, invisibility, rapid-recovery, hex-eater discrepancies, dagger asp, distance attuning, uneven distance de-attunement, distance cutlass attacks, ambush settings, blinking, hyper-speed movement, lag-bombing, instant desolation/bladestorm/viper's net

- now these are legit bugs... and we know they are. Being invulnerable was never meant to be in the game, as well as being invisible, or using weapon glitches like instant charging or blinking... but jumping is not that. Its jumping

* Multiple jumps should not be allowed.
* Continuous jumping is absurd. A 5 minute recovery time after a jump should be required to successfully jump again.

- ok, this is actually a repeat :) I bring it up again because it points out a fact - you cannot just remove an entire feature just because it has been found to give advantages to only those who can take advantage of it. It the same as removing all weapons from SvS except cannon balls... yea - nice easy solution - but not right. These shoud be adjusted (or fixed if bugged / glitchable) to become more level to the playing field. Sure - getting mad and just saying 'remove it' does solve it - until the only thing you can do is stand there and hit each other with fists (because once jumping is gone then something else is discovered, players will cry foul until its removed, and so on and so on....) - but then there's no strategy... no creatativity on surviving someone whos twice the level as you... no game really.

But wait, what do I care? I don't PvP...seen enough of it, and no thanks :)
(ok, I HAD to do that... that was just WIDE open not to take it LOL :D)

*offtopic* wish Steeley Jim was here - he'd have some posts to put in by now (for those who don't know - Jim was an old poster who was very 'indepth' with topics ;) )

In the interest of compromise, I'll comment only on two points:

* 5 minute interval is unreasonable - should be 15 minutes at least. Since the pirate characters do longer jumps than Olympic athletes doing long jumps, a much, much, much longer recuperation time is warranted. Perhaps one jump per day.

* It would only open the flood gates to more exotic exploitation, if some weapons were allowed but not others. All weapons should be put away during a jump. (And cause harm to the jumper, etc.)

I"ll Comment

The horse has been beaten, squashed to glue, pasted on your homework, and dried already.

And Max, I miss Jim, too ;)

Edward's and my glue is just drying - it need a few more hours :D

Yea, just one on those posters who sticks in your mind I guess :)

Note: I like to argue.

If jumping while in PVP was unintended I think that it could be easily fixed or removed. If it is a bug there is no real proof that it is unless Dsieny comes out and says it is. I think Disney let players jump in PVP without knowing that it would actually be used to win a PVP match.

But I do think Disney should get rid of jumping in PVP. If not the least they could do is take away weapons while you jump.

I tried to make this point before but apparently failed. Whether Disney admits it or not, it is a bug. Whether it was originally intentional or not, it is a bug.

Jumping glitches (especially the ones I beat to death above) make PvP an eyesore for POTCO. It affects them, whether they admit it or not.

A little off the beat here, but does jumping work in the regular, non-PvP aspect of the game? If I go against a Seabeard, hacking with a sword, will I not take damage?

......has become old, lost its "stick", fallen off the homework, been eaten by your little sister, etc etc etc.

You kiddin' me??? The dog ate the homework.....so we all know what comes next.....lol


:psmiley27:

I dont PvP anymore due to the massive jumpers out there. But I remember the last time there was a jumper fighting me and beating like hell....and I said "Listen, I am not a jumper like you, but if you want me dead, you are coming with me"... 2000+ Sidge damage around me and we both died. He never said a thing.

Yes, jumping can be a real skill, its a pity you cant lvl yer jumping skills cos if you could many probably wouldnt bother to do it, although Im sure I have pvpd the equivelant of lvl 25 jumpers.

As far as I am concerned any wep I spent time mastering is fair game in a match where staying alive longer than yer opponent is the objective, that includes doll. Which I must say I am especially good with and which will foil most jumpers.
So maybe the answer is to ignore anyone who says no dolls n no tonics only to hop around like a rabid frog becuase its the only way they can play. If they hop then u doll... nah just doll anyway !

...I should set my funky chicken avatar on them that'll confuse em!!

I Don't
 

I never do PVP battles and this is just another reason why.
All this drama seems to have gone is circles a while.
Isn't time to really put this thread to bed?

*Brings up cart and loads the dead horse*

Shall we take this poor old plow horse out to his final pasture?

We should have a proper burial...it's the right thing to do.

"We gather here today...to bury "Jumper" the horse....he was a feisty one...."

LOL....sorry....LOLx2

:laughks2:

Max, Sarah I beg to differ, never cared for those that thought they could do what ever they wanted to others.

I remember a thread about like this one on "jumping" whatever someone else was fighting. Something like not stealing rep, since you haven't got it yet . I remember some of that stupid reasoning.

About the time I challenged anyone to make me their friend, and I would come and single shot kill siege bomb everything they were fighting, since it didn't bother them. There was only one defending taker, and never saw him logged on again.

Can't say I miss having a extra 4 pages added to a post like this for someone to back doing anything to other players.

So in that I don't miss Jim, I wouldn't say indepth, but a one sided view you can do anything you want, was my take.

Not something needed on a already long drug through the mud post in my view.


This post really has become a view of a bug/glitch, versus something learned to accomplish a advantage over others. With different views right or wrong. Really has no where else to go, but different people will have different views on it.

This thread I settled a week ago, with the post on superstitions?

I'm not saying I loved everything Jim posted, but ya gotta admit, he could hold one heck of an intelligent debate. That's what I miss. Well, that and our weapons design discussions...remember this one?

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...t/3a29cde6.jpg

Perhaps not ;)

And I agree, this post has been beaten to death.

If you feel it's a Bug/Glitch/Cheat/Skill/Waste of Your Time, I think you have all eloquently made your points...several, several times over.