Use of VoIP while playing POTCO

[Bartholomew Foulsteel]

The original post was very well thought out and written. Here is the email verbatim of what I asked Disney myself:

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Foulsteel

Good afternoon,

I would like some questions answered about the use of Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP).

1. Is VOIP use allowed while playing Pirates of the Caribbean Online?

2. Are programs like TEAMSPEAK, VENTRILO, and X-FIRE (all VOIP programs) considered 3rd party programs, as defined in your Members Agreement?

3. If programs like TEAMSPEAK, VENTRILO, and X-FIRE are considered 3rd party programs, why are they?

4. If programs like TEAMSPEAK, VENTRILO, and X-FIRE are not considered 3rd party programs, why are they not?

5. Why is mentioning TEAMSPEAK, VENTRILO, and X-FIRE while playing Pirates of the Caribbean Online offenses for which one can be banned?

6. If the use of VOIP while playing is allowed, why can one not mention TEAMSPEAK, VENTRILO, and X-FIRE while playing Pirates of the Caribbean Online?

7. If the use of VOIP is not allowed while playing Pirates of the Caribbean Online, why isn't it allowed?


Thank you in advance for addressing each of theese questions individually. I want to make sure that the people I know and I do not violate any Terms of Use.

Here's Disney's reply (emphasis added by me):

Originally Posted by Disney Rep

Thank you for contacting us!

Third party programs are considered any program that is not designed by Disney to enhance the game or experience.

We do not endorse the use of VOIP or chat programs, and it is a violation of our Terms of Use. We ask that our guests not give out or ask for any personal information within our game. This includes, but not limited to, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, or URLs for social networking sites.

For more information about the types of activity that might warrant some action against an account, please visit our Netiquette page. The site covers online safety and manners and is located at:

http://home.disney.go.com/guestservices/netiquette

We hope this helps and look forward to seeing you in the Caribbean again soon!

Allyson
Pirates of the Caribbean Online Member Services

Now, my questions were direct and to the point. I did not attempt to influence the answer in any way. Once could not tell whether I wanted to use VOIP or no, only that I wanted to make sure I did not violate Terms of Use, Netiquette, or rules.

It seems very clear to me based on this more precise questioning that the use of VOIP is not in accordance with Disney's rules.

We can argue all day and night for month on end, but as I previously wrote, if there are people who work at POTCO Member Services who say it is against the rules, and others that say it isn't, then you take a chance at violating those rules because it is clear there are Disney reps who believe that VOIP constitutes a 3rd Party program and the use of VOIP is a violation of TOU.

[Sven Niscadae]

Originally Posted by Disney Rep

We do not endorse the use of VOIP or chat programs, and it is a violation of our Terms of Use.

I'm not real sure that she actually answered your questions, Bart. I think there could be a different interpretation of that single line. What is the "it"? Endorsing or using? Since she followed it up with the "no sharing personal information" line, I'm likely to believe she meant that endorsing VOIP while in game is a violation.

Any email exchange I've had with different Disney Reps regarding this subject have been met with funneling down the answer toward the sharing of personal information as discussed in the Disney House Rules.

A follow-up email from me:

Originally Posted by Sven

Thank you for the reply. I do realize that sharing personally identifiable information is a big no-no while in game; however, I'm looking for more clarity on my original question. Is using a VoIP program while playing against your Terms of Use for POTCO? A Yes or No answer will suffice. Thank you.

Disney's reply:

Originally Posted by Disney

Dear <myname>,

Using it to talk to friend is your choice. However, we discourage any guests from give others their VoIP name or attempt to convince them to download the program to talk to each other. The simple exchange of any Personally Identifiable Information is strictly prohibited. Please refer to the Terms of Use for further details.

Robert
Pirates of the Caribbean Online Member Services

Also, I forwarded them the link to this very thread. The only comment they would make was this:

Originally Posted by Disney

Dear <myname>,

Thank you for contacting the Pirates of the Caribbean Online.

I have reviewed this site and it appears that I definitely agree with the following statement about VoiceIP:

"You should never give out any personal information about yourself or anyone else, and never ask for personal information from others. This means no posting of phone numbers, screen or user names (including Voice Over Internet Protocol), addresses, e-mail addresses, Social Security numbers, passwords, or any other private information. In addition, any discussion of Web addresses or social networking Web sites where personal information is, or can be posted or exchanged, (VoIP's again) is not allowed." - Disney House Rules

We discussed VoIP and Disney still processes violations on users giving out their personal information.

Thank you for contacting us to make sure these rules were still activated. If you have any more concerns, questions, or comments, then feel free to contact us again. Have a great day.

Justin E
Pirates of the Caribbean Online Member Services

So far I can only assume that they cannot definitively say one way or another regarding the usage of VOIP while in game. In reality, Disney cannot know whether someone is using VOIP software while playing because that would require the game to find out, and scanning someone's computer without consent would be an invasion of privacy. The only other way is for someone to share that information using in-game chat.

Originally Posted by jason davy

I guess it would be too much to ask for some consistency and official clarification on their end.

I agree, jason. I wish they would give us a straight Yes or No answer but it was apparently too much to ask.

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Foulsteel

Using VOIP on the other hand DOES have an effect on the game beecause it allows people to bypass the chat filters in game while talking to other pirates in game. there's a big difference.

So does me talking across the room to Zilly. I'm violating chat filters abound. Sarcasm aside, VOIP does nothing to the chat filters (Speedchat, Speedchat Plus, Open Chat, and the new naughty word ban-o-matic). The in-game filters are still intact. Other pirates in game? Only the other pirates who the personal probably already knows outside the game anyway. If someone has already joined onto a VOIP server/channel, they've probably made it around Disney's filters already (through 3rd-party means - email, forums, IM, etc).

As the quoted Disney Rep said in the OP, it is your choice. Use it. Don't use it. But don't share PII in game. That's apparently all Disney has to say about that.

Added 9/19/09: I had sent Disney another follow-up email on Thursday 9/17 regarding this.

Originally Posted by Sven

Thank you but I am already very familiar with all of the available Disney policies (Terms of Use, House Rules, Member Agreement); however, I still did not get my question answered.

Am I in violation of any Disney policies if I play Pirates of the Caribbean Online while talking to my friends, guild, or other players on a VoIP program?

The Terms of Use has no mention of third-party software let alone VoIP software.
The Member Agreement does mention third-party software; however, it pertains to methods of cheating at the game.
The House Rules does have a statement regarding VoIP; however, it's only addressing the sharing of personal information in-game in order to initiate such a conversation.

Please no canned responses. Forward this on to a manager if you need to. The pirate community has this as a hot topic on our fan sites and some real cut and dry clarification would be most helpful. Thank you.

And the reply I got yesterday was from one of their Community Support Managers, who as I predicted side-stepped the entire question yet again.

Originally Posted by Disney Community Support Manager

Dear <myname>,

We here at Pirates of the Caribbean Online appreciate your concern on this topic.

As you know, the giving or sharing of an Personally Identifiable Information is a violation of our Terms of Use as well as our House Rules. In order to maintain a safe online environment for guests of all ages, we must ensure all our guests' gameplay is moderated fairly and consistently across the board. This includes discussion of third-party information sharing software that may or may not be used for the exchange of personal information, thereby possibly comprimising the safety of our younger guests.

We also offer Open Chat for our adult guests, as opposed to Speed Chat Plus.
Whereas the latter chat setting allows players to chat with each other by typing words that are in the game's Speed Chat Plus dictionary, Open Chat allows you to chat with anyone else using Open Chat. It works without the help of the game's dictionary. Remember that some words are still considered inappropriate and are not allowed in Open Chat.

I hope this information is helpful to you.
Thank you,

Kurt
Community Support Manager

Yeah, I think this topic has been deemed "avoid at all costs" over there at the big D. Bottom line is: It is your choice. Use it or don't use it. But don't share personal information (in order to get connected to VOIP) in game.

Disney's comment on the topic is apparently "no comment."

[Basil Dreadflint]

First off, my OP was not intended to be an endorsement nor a deterrent to the use of VoIP. I am, however, going to address Bart's post.

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Foulsteel

The original post was very well thought out and written. (Thank-you) Here is the email verbatim of what I asked Disney myself:

Here's Disney's reply (emphasis added by me):(And removed by me)

Now, my questions were direct and to the point. I did not attempt to influence the answer in any way. Once could not tell whether I wanted to use VOIP or no, only that I wanted to make sure I did not violate Terms of Use, Netiquette, or rules.
(7 very well written and explicit questions, none of which would lead to skewed answers, even containing a request to have them answered individually. WHICH DISNEY DID NOT DO.)
It seems very clear to me based on this more precise questioning that the use of VOIP is not in accordance with Disney's rules.
(I disagree. This is a perfect example of Disney circle-speak. The answer DID NOT address your questions. It says, "Do not ENDORSE the use of", does not say the use of is in violation. The only thing called out as a violation is the passing of personal info.)


We can argue all day and night for month on end, (Exactly the point my OP was trying to make, and I, for one, am tired of the arguing. )but as I previously wrote, if there are people who work at POTCO Member Services who say it is against the rules, and others that say it isn't, then you take a chance at violating those rules because it is clear there are Disney reps who believe that VOIP constitutes a 3rd Party program and the use of VOIP is a violation of TOU.(This last statement I totally agree with. Disney does NOT have a strict policy. They are at odds with themselves on the issue. Some Disney reps say it is up to you, and others say to not use the VoIP.
In truth, Disney has absolutely no method to know if anyone is or is not using it. The only way they even would know about these discussions is by persons questioning them directly, or by them seeing these posts on the forums. The discussions have been ongoing here for weeks. Sven pointed them directly to my OP. And the answer he got back was even MORE circle-speak.

"We discussed VoIP and Disney still processes violations on users giving out their personal information!" Not, "We discussed the use of VoIP while playing the game and have determined it's use to be in vioation." If Disney reads the forums, and had a difinitve answer to the situation, they could easily post so either here, or on their own website, which they have not done. )

I stand by my OP. I just want the arguing to stop.

The threads and postings about the topic have been brash. People have been posting their 'interpretation' of the Disney rules as if they were facts. Arguements have ensued, and have led to some hard feelings. Many of the posts have needed to be edited or deleted by the mod staff due to trolling/flaming/naming names or other violations of POF policy.

Unless and until Disney makes a hard and fast statement, I recommend that future discussions on the forums should be kept to, "Yes, we allow it in our event", or "No, we don't allow it in our event."