Make Light Sloops more targetable in pvp...

[CrimsonRabbit]

Anyway, try doing the method described earlier on how to aim you broadsides downward, it works...or heck, maybe you could actually manuever your ship into proper position, release the helm and man a cannon for a second. Or maybe you can just complain so they alter the game to your style of play. I've only had real problems with the light sloops who cheat (repair glitch) or the ones who hover around and go in for the kill when my ship is wounded from a real fight (against a war ship).

You ever shot at something small with a shotgun only to have half the pellets miss, but if you shoot at the same target with a high powered rifle and some aim, you'll hit it...doing a good deal more damage then the shotgun pellets that actually hit? Hmmm............

Just trying to help you out of your frustration. Arrrrrrrrrrr

[Edward Edgemenace]

Originally Posted by BadBones X

You guys have gotten completely off topic. This thread is about the inability to hit light sloops with broadsides in SvS and their over armored hulls when compared to War class vessels.

Stay on topic please.

Furthermore, the outrageous claims being made by those who are proponents of using light sloops in SvS such as:

"My light sloop runs after it has been hit once, because it went from 100% to 15% hull, from your one hit." (only if a War Frigate rammed you as a single shot of Thunderbolt with 5 pts in it does about 34 damage in SvS)

and

"Use a war frigate to ram? 1,800 damage (maybe more now in svs.) Only have to come within 1/2 mile of where the light sloop is, for it to score as a hit." (the only explanation for this would be lag)

are completely ludicrous and do not constitute valid arguments. IMHO this is an important matter for SvS to succeed in this game. I personally get so ****ed when my War Frigate gets sunk by a Light Sloop that I log off for the day; especially in an extended fight when I start with no damage at all and lose to a light sloop that I can barely get to half hull. It is simply ludicrous and needs to be fixed.

For those of you wanting to espouse the realities of smaller ships fighting larger ships in real life, consider this...

A hole the size of a cannon ball in a single hull ship (think row boat) as small as a light sloop would literally sink the ship as it would be impossible for even a full (3 man) crew to bail out the water as fast as it would be coming through the hole. So if you really want to go down that "...but in reality" road, a single hit would sink a light sloop.

Your misplaced insults are simply bizarre. When I get hit with a single shot of thunder (from a glitched boat) my light sloop's health goes to red (if I was at 100%) or I sink. I've never seen a mere 34 damage to my boat, from thunderbolt. Not ever.


The ramming speed experiments I did with a friend, were on a quiet server - Will in his War Frigate, me in my light sloop (both of us level 40.) He did not have to come anywhere near me, for his ramming speed to register the 1800 damage.


Now,

I completely sympathize with you, when you say a glitched light sloop came out of nowhere and sunk you. That happens to me, too. But in fair games, my White Warrior light sloop sinks a lot of boats. When glitchers appear, I sink. There seems to be no middle of the road, so I don't bother much with SvS anymore, even though it held the most promise for any part of the Pirates Online game.

[CrimsonRabbit]

I've never seen a mere 34 damage to my boat, from thunderbolt. Not ever.

I've seen it happen a lot. My thunderbolt will hit ships for 84 all the time (that's with 5 points in it)...it's not until I hit the same locatiothat it registers hitn or the proper spot on the ship s between 880-1080.

Is that off-topic....i hope not

[Edward Edgemenace]

The "O"s are cannonballs, the "^" is enemy ship and "<" is your ship, right?

Originally Posted by CrimsonRabbit

I don't know if I can contribute this to lag...I'll actually see the cannon-balls shooting directly out the side of the opposing ship, nowhere near mine, but I'll still take damage. This needs to be fixed...especially if it's happening to more than just me.

As shown in the beautiful diagram below....there should be NO WAY for an enemy (dark purple) to hit me (light purple) with its right broadsides (shown in red)...but they DO!!!

Direction of boat travel shown by arrows....both ships doing clockwise rotation.
~~~~~~~~~~~^^~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~^^^^~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~^^^^OOOOOOOOO~
~~~~~~~~~~^^^^~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~^^^^OOOOOOOOO~
~~~~~~~~~~^^^^~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~^^^^OOOOOOOOO~
~~~~~~~~~~^^^^~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~OO~O~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~O~O~O~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~O~~O~O~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~O~~~O~O~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~<<<<<<<<<<<~~~~~~~~
~~~~<<<<<<<<<<<<~~~~~~~~
~~~~~<<<<<<<<<<<~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about. I have witnessed this too many times, where there is no possible way for them to hit me, yet they do. I can be exactly on their stern, or any number of boat lengths away from their their stern. On compass, they appear perfectly perpendicular to my boat (that is, so my broadsides will hit their stern perfectly) yet my shots miss and theirs hit me. Visually, (on screen, not on compass) they appear perfectly perpendicular, yet my shots miss and theirs hit me.

Armchair diagnostics suggest lag is possibly the cause, HOWEVER, the game play is usually smooth prior to, during and after that. (And no, I'm not talking about being in a mob of boats, but instead only two boats, fairly far from any other action.) So no, I can't attribute this to lag, either.
-------

Originally Posted by CrimsonRabbit

I've seen it happen a lot. My thunderbolt will hit ships for 84 all the time (that's with 5 points in it)...it's not until I hit the same locatiothat it registers hitn or the proper spot on the ship s between 880-1080.

Is that off-topic....i hope not

I would call that a glitched "invulnerable" light sloop. Can we test this please? You are the only person nearby with rank 5 thunder, that I can ask. I'm on Cortevos server right now.
-------

Originally Posted by Edward Edgemenace

I would call that a glitched "invulnerable" light sloop. Can we test this please? You are the only person nearby with rank 5 thunder, that I can ask. I'm on Cortevos server right now.

Well. My Friend Eric came on (with rank 5 thunder) and a single shot to my light sloop (we are both lvl 40) did 96 damage. But he hit the mast and a friend of his came on while we were still testing it (and sunk me.) Getting a little playful revenge, I chased his war frigate to the NW corner of the map, where he ran into a death omen. (NW of Rumrunner's!) After a little bit more miscommunication, he got disconnected. So we never did get to test it, to see how much damage a real hit from thunder does.

[CrimsonRabbit]

That sounds about right....the 96 was a hit to your stern because when you hit the mast of a ship, it doesn't tell you how much damage you did (at least not on my version). I'll hit a target from anywhere between 86-109 OR between 860-1100...nothing in between. The light sloops are tricky because you have to hit the perfect spot to register it at the higher numbers....but once you do..it's all over for them.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRabbit

That sounds about right....the 96 was a hit to your stern because when you hit the mast of a ship, it doesn't tell you how much damage you did (at least not on my version). I'll hit a target from anywhere between 86-109 OR between 860-1100...nothing in between. The light sloops are tricky because you have to hit the perfect spot to register it at the higher numbers....but once you do..it's all over for them.

OK, so the claim that a rank 5 thunder even could do only 34 damage, is, as I thought, bogus.

Someone made the claim that a light sloop is equivalent to a dinghy or row boat. That is equally preposterous. A light sloop is a sea-worthy craft with eight cannons, each weighing a half a ton. (The car in your driveway probably weighs less than one of those cannons!) On a sea worthy craft (50' to 60' long) there are compartments - no, a single cannonball cannot sink a ship like that. A 120' long war frigate shouldn't really have that much more "hull" - in reality, the bigger war frigates don't exist (they'd sink like a rock, first wave over the bow.) But if they did, they would be more susceptible to being sunk. Way more likely to sink than a stealthy PT boat.

===

BadbonesX, Disney HAS answered your request. The target area of a light sloop (with last night's software update - 1AM 9/5/2008) has changed from one boat length and one boat width, to 10 boat lengths and about 100 boat widths, for a light sloop. That is, any enemy cannonball landing anywhere behind me (from the aft of my boat all the way to uncharted waters) scores as a hit now.

GLITCHED light sloops, however, are still 100% invulnerable.

They also disabled ramming speed entirely. It now gives all nearby ENEMY ships a sudden burst of speed (even if they were stationary) then stops your boat for one second then sends your boat careening off randomly for about 5 seconds THEN maybe does damage to something. (Dunno about that last part - was never close enough to anything to be sure.)

I assume they also finished disabling grape shot, in this last update. I assume that assassinating glitchers with round shot now also fails.

Enough is enough. Seeya.

[CrimsonRabbit]

Hmmm....I was playing all night last night and didn't notice any of the things you mentioned. But for some reason, my 5-point lightnings were hitting ships for as low as 45....***? That was seriously ticking me off.

[Dr. Zeppers]

Personally I didnt see a problem with the light sloop "hitbox" as we used to call them.

Light sloops are supposed to be hard to hit, they should also take far fewer strikes to sink.

To simply compare and say a "War Frigate" should always take out a "Light Sloop" which I think a few may generalize is not a logical comparison since it takes out the skills/abilities of those controlling them. Smaller ships have often in warfare used thier speed and prowess to outwit and defeat larger ships. The only issue here at hand to me, is glitching which doesnt seem to matter WHAT ship you sail.

Big ships have to aim better, or take a cannon where you have more control. I have used the method of turning my ship to aim cannons downwards quite frequently, and it works.

Disney needs to fix the glitching and stop catering to those whining about the game being too hard (IMO).

[Rackat]

Originally Posted by OFxZeppers

Disney needs to fix the glitching and stop catering to those whining about the game being too hard (IMO).

From your keyboard to D's inbox....hopefully.

[Robmac7777]

I single out the lite sloops now and attack em aggressively because they have high lvl players on them. Use basic cannon shot, or grape shot. Get in close and turn/circle with them. Don't use any other shot as it is not as effective. Also, at a distance from them while steering, locate where they are on your compass, when they are barely visible in red - fire while circling around them, keeping the same distance. They can be had, the slippery little so-and-so's, I love getting em now!
Jack Aubrey all ships "Sea Mongrel"

[Dr. Zeppers]

Originally Posted by Robmac7777

I single out the lite sloops now and attack em aggressively because they have high lvl players on them. Use basic cannon shot, or grape shot. Get in close and turn/circle with them. Don't use any other shot as it is not as effective. Also, at a distance from them while steering, locate where they are on your compass, when they are barely visible in red - fire while circling around them, keeping the same distance. They can be had, the slippery little so-and-so's, I love getting em now!
Jack Aubrey all ships "Sea Mongrel"

Thats the ticket, study your opponent, and figure out how to beat them. I like that! Makes for a challenge, and success is ever so much more gratifying.

Looking forward to upcoming fixes and new content being put on open once they get it fixed up.

[Stormhawk]

Sometimes a light sloop will come up next to me in my war sloop and sink me in 15 seconds with fury. How? I don't know. I can't seem to sink them easily even though I am hitting them wioth every shot, but they sure can sink me easily. I figured out grape shot works best on them. After graping them to death, I fury them to death.

[Poison elf]

I haven't been out there for a good while, but light sloop will whip anyone one on one, well until the can't hit anything people won out over those that knew how. War frigate, of course, you would be using a full crew or why would you have that ship out there?

Other words a person solo with a war frigate is running around acting cool that they have the biggest most expensive ship? I was happy to sell some of mine and adjust to a small sloop, basically didn't have a choice. Since getting on any ship with a crew was such lag or game crash, with all the glitches.

Now that they took more than half the damage away from cannon, made the small sloop practically as big as a war frigate for those that can't hit anything, likely I won't be back out there. Only real battles I was getting were crewed ships, who a lot of the time still lost sitting on top of you missing. Or chasing down other little sloops, which for some reason I never had trouble hitting and sinking.

Glitches such as healing definitely paid its toll, and most I found I would target until they did the usual race and dock at some island. Now and then a few were pretty unstoppable, and few from your side Spanish/French would ever help, made them more powerful. If I ever put a second character on the little sloop to make it even to some of the big crews rarely we would walk away loosing. Most can't hit a stationary target no hope with a moving one.

All the war frigates I sunk, I would say 90% had no more than one person firing cannon, how many are on it? More realistically lets say how many are on one side, that could be utilized against a opponent at once.

We took out a war frigate with a full crew for like 24 hours, never had problems sinking anything that really came up against us, even several at a time.

To compare damage with something like lightning bolt, you also need to know the important stats. Did they have 4 points in barrage, did you try it with/without open fire. Key stats like this is what matters, and basically brings it back to who knows what they are doing, versus who is whining everything should be easy for them and they shouldn't have to work at stats to be better. Its also after you do damage it does the big points, so a lot of the time several shots with little broadsides would soften the ship up before using cannon.

I sure know if a small sloop is what was giving me the most trouble, it would be the very first thing I would go out on and see whats going on. War frigates always so conveniently lined up sideways so you could do most damage. Only time ya saw one turn at ya "where ya did less damage" is cause they were trying to ram you. Use to laugh all the time everyone always keeping the ship to the side. Obviously I don't need to say where best damage is to the little sloops with all the practice and checking into it people obviously have done?

I use to see 1800 damage all the time, on a light sloop from getting rammed. Alot of the time with that one single hit taking you down to being hit once with a cannon. The biggest problems I have seen is this whining by people that won't go out there and see what works. You are in a war frigate you better learn to use ramming, and jump to a cannon. No differant than a light sloop seeing someone is about to ram and get out of the way in time. Its broadsides work just fine, and one of the best things in the game. Forcing some people to not have a free ride and actually have to learn another skill.

Wish sometimes I could just take out a nice paper war frigate and see if some people could actually hit it with a cannon.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Poison Elf, I agree completely. It is not the light sloop that is a problem, it is the glitches. Not repair-on-the-run so much, but definitely invulnerability, infinite ammo, auto-repair, invisibility, triple-shot thunder, 360 cannon and 360 broadsides being the worst offenders.

Since grape shot became completely ineffective on glitchers, I've stopped trying to play SvS. Last couple weeks have been profoundly relaxing and enjoyable (particularly in comparison to when I was still trying to SvS.)

[League]

Rule of argumentative thumb: complain only when skill isn't part of the equation. You see, some of you may not be able to hit that Sloop because there is a person in that Sloop as well. Now, if he is able to maneuver against your shots, you shouldn't complain.

Furthermore, some arguments (in truth, they be other options that make neglible the need for drastic change) have been presented: you can lean your ships, you can fire a cluster of Grapes, etc.