"Jumping" in PvP

[Jacqueline]

I don't think jumping is cheating. I mean, if your opponent is going to attack you, I would get out of the way--- it's common sense.

A PvP match shouldn't be based on the strength of your weapons or health of your pirate. It should be based on the skill of the player.

Jumpers are annoying-- and that's the point. They're supposed to frustrate you.
A frustrated players could be easier to defeat than an player that is not frustrated.

[jason davy]

Originally Posted by Jacqueline

I don't think jumping is cheating. I mean, if your opponent is going to attack you, I would get out of the way--- it's common sense.

A PvP match shouldn't be based on the strength of your weapons or health of your pirate. It should be based on the skill of the player.

Jumpers are annoying-- and that's the point. They're supposed to frustrate you.
A frustrated players could be easier to defeat than an player that is not frustrated.

Jumping is not used to be frustrating, nor is it used only to "get out of the way." This tactic is used by those who care about WINNING. Not about fun, not about fairness, not about respect. Just winning. When a tactic is unfair to other players, it ceases to be simply a tactic and becomes cheating.

[Sven Osymthe]

Jumpings may not be used to be "frustrating" but by majority of the posts I have read... it apparently is to a lot if you choose to admit it or not. The reason for this thread being started was you were tired of people jumping in pvp... thus you were frustrated at the fact they keep doing so.

It is used to get out of the way... I agree that a lot who do this don't just do it for that purpose though. A lot who do are doing it for wins, yes. But its still a tactic never the less (those who are saying you shouldn't be able to jump with a weapon, you shouldn't be able to attack in the air... last time I checked POTCO is a GAME not REAL LIFE.) and it isn't just used by those who care about winning.

Not about fun? Not about fairness? Not about respect?

Last I checked PvP was two or more people fighting one another, that to some is fun.

It IS fair regardless of one person not knowing how to jump, it ISN'T fair if you ask the person to stop yet they refuse... but then again there are NO SET rules for pvp meaning pretty much, anything goes. If the people who are in the pvp AGREE to rules and one of them is "no jumping"... then yes, if the other does it it is unfair. However, if the other player refuses to abide by those rules... DON'T ACCEPT THE PVP... if your already in the pvp, LOG OUT.

The matter of respect... sure plenty of people who do jump don't care at all about their opponent but NOT EVERYONE IS THIS WAY.

You should word what you say a little better... you pretty much said anyone who jumps in pvp doesn't respect who they face, don't want to have a fun pvp, aren't fair, and only care about winning. I myself don't ALWAYS jump in a pvp and do admit it is tiresome at times but you can't say that EVERYONE who does this is pretty much a "cheater".

You also said before that someone whos moving around their opponent (I am assuming circling around so if I misunderstand then excuse me) is GOOD at pvp? If jumping in circles around your opponent is unfair... explain to me how doing the same thing minus the jump is unfair? Again, if I misunderstood, excuse me.

[jason davy]

Originally Posted by Sven Osymthe

You should word what you say a little better... you pretty much said anyone who jumps in pvp doesn't respect who they face, don't want to have a fun pvp, aren't fair, and only care about winning. I myself don't ALWAYS jump in a pvp and do admit it is tiresome at times but you can't say that EVERYONE who does this is pretty much a "cheater".

You also said before that someone whos moving around their opponent (I am assuming circling around so if I misunderstand then excuse me) is GOOD at pvp? If jumping in circles around your opponent is unfair... explain to me how doing the same thing minus the jump is unfair? Again, if I misunderstood, excuse me.

I apologize for any misunderstandings and areas where I have been unclear. I didn't mean to suggest everyone who jumps doesn't care about fun, respect, etc. As I've said in previous posts, I have great respect for people who stop jumping when asked. But the fact is that many... as in most... people who jump refuse to do anything BUT jump- therein lies my claim that they only care about winning.

Also, circling/running around on the ground is fair because it is possible to hit them with a blade. However, with jumping, it is (nearly) impossible to hit them (with a blade) unless you are jumping yourself.

[Sven Osymthe]

I know what that you didn't really mean to suggest that everyone who does jump doesn't care about fun, respect, etc. but if someone chooses to jump even after asked to stop... its their choice in the end, they are good at it let them do it, can just log out if its really that big a deal.

Circling/running around is pretty much the same as jumping around them. It IS possible to hit them with swords both ways. If you take someone into a pvp and have them run circles around you and you rotate to attack them then have them do the same motion but this time JUMP... you will be able to hit them both ways. It just appears harder to attack the jumper since he/she is moving up and down as well as around. What I meant by take someone to a pvp... have someone stand infront of you, if they aren't jumping of course you CAN hit them... but if you tell them "hold down space", guess what... you CAN hit them as well even when they are IN the AIR.

Also, if you have problems with jumpers heres something I learned from pvping them many times. DON'T use the arrows to turn, use WASD. Right click on the mouse to adjust your aim as well. As simple as those sound they are a BIG help... being able to move in circles/jump doesn't have much to do with skill other than being able to aim for your opponent

[jason davy]

Originally Posted by Sven Osymthe

Also, if you have problems with jumpers heres something I learned from pvping them many times. DON'T use the arrows to turn, use WASD. Right click on the mouse to adjust your aim as well. As simple as those sound they are a BIG help... being able to move in circles/jump doesn't have much to do with skill other than being able to aim for your opponent

Lol, thanks for the tips. Usually I don't even try to fight jumpers, but next time I'll give that a try. And if it fails... perhaps wither. lol

[Sven Osymthe]

lol, you're very welcome for those. If done correctly it shouldn't fail... I beat 2 jumpers in a 2 on 1 pvp (even if they were bad LOL... not gonna say any names ), I also beat 5 members of one of this guilds forums in a 5 on 1 (not gonna say again LOL). If it does fail though... might I suggest some smoke grenades followed by a nice siege charge? rofl

[Edward Edgemenace]

The fact remains, that Disney allowing jumping as they do, is a bug.

I like how my words have been twisted over and over again by proponents of jumping, above. In their minds, they have fully rationalized their cheating, so not much more can be said. But consider what nearly every proponent has started with... "I used to think it was cheating, but" or "I originally thought jumping was cheating, but" etc. Only the die-hards have learned to deal with it - most people write PvP off as a waste immediately. Why? Because it is about counter-intuitive glitches; jumping is simply the easiest to identify.

Should an opponent be invulnerable in the air (as they effectively are now) or should they more realistically be an order of magnitude more vulnerable? OK, so that's yet another glitch with jumping that I didn't mention sooner.

Even in the movies, there is no way a pirate jumping can successfully pull off an attack. Dodge, evade, parry; sure. Land on someone? Sure. But that is nothing like POTCO jumping...damage isn't when the jump ends, it is when the attack is made.

Continuous jumping is preposterous. One jump per match might be reasonable. But such a daring tactic doesn't work twice.

Having a weapon out at all during a jump, rightfully should injure the pirate jumping. A work-around I suggested above, is to put the weapon away during a jump.

Having partial strength attacks from the air would leave the same impression for POTCO PvP: not worth even trying.

Jumping detracts enormously, from the PvP portion of the game, to the point that most people refuse to PvP, after trying it once or twice.

[akamystic]

Notice how jumpers will say "no dolls" "no staffs" (at least the ones I've encountered). Gee, I wonder why...don't want to get chained down and life drained? Don't like Wither or Flame? How about a nice drop of Desolation?? LOL

Seriously....I think this horse has been dead for days...and we all still be kickin' it.....

[Rackat]

POTCO is my first, and only, foray into the world of MMORPG. Prior to POTCO I was only an online FPS player. Quake, DooM, Command and Conquer, etc, games that required fierce competitiveness and skill to even come close to winning. I still fire those games up occasionally just to get that rush going. And yes, there were glitchers/cheaters in those games as well but most of the time skill won out.

I do not like the PvP portion of POTCO because it feels like Disney is trying to incorporate some FPS gamestyle into an MMORPG. It just doesn't work, for me. I guess if I spent as much time just PvPing as I did learning the physics of Quake 1, 2, 3, & 4 I could get really good at it. but it is not worth it. There are much better games for testing your skill one on one. I don't feel that PvP 'fits' POTCO. It is too much of an attempt to placate players that just want to win at any cost against another player. Not to mention the cheaters.

On the other hand, the SvS portion of the game is exactly what POTCO should have. It matches a pirate's sailing skill, and his/her crew against other ships and crews. It 'fits' the game. Unfortunately, there are so many cheaters in SvS that it is not worth playing. Even though it is a good idea, it is basically worthless at this point because it is not about skill, it is about using exploits/glitches/cheats to win.

So, what it comes down to in the end is either you spend the time to learn the cheats/glitches/exploits of these sub-POTCO games, you play anyway and try to beat the cheat system, or you just play the game without PvP/SvSing.

[Maximvs]

Originally Posted by Edward

The fact remains, that Disney allowing jumping as they do, is a bug.

No. Disney allowing jumping as they do - is bad judgement or bad design on their part - it is not a bug.

But consider what nearly every proponent has started with... "I used to think it was cheating, but" or "I originally thought jumping was cheating, but" etc.

Because though they me be die-hards... its a game with bent psychics... a glitch is a break - and for the "third time" this is not broken - poor design - but not broken.

Ideas about reducing the effects of jumping is not "Fixing a glitch" - but about changing the current paramaters. and again - this I support as it makes it more 'real' - and maybe certain weapons not working when jumping would be 'real' and this is what they should focus on - but - its not broken currently, just bad design.

One jump per match might be reasonable.

Which is the same as stating rules like "no tonics or swords only". If the game character can jump in the game - then they can jump. Period. No limits, rules, conditions. If the complaint is to adjust jumping in the game to more reasonable heights / distance - then thats one thing. Change the options to reduce height, only allow weapons which should be easily handled. (note here - we ARe playing a game with Voodoo Dolls and Staffs... it is a 'fantasy' world... it all just cant be world perfect).

---

Your one of the best of not the best glitch finders in the game Edward - but your definitions on what is a "bad design choice" vs a "glitch/bug" tend to meld together, espically when you've had a fustrating day

---

Originally Posted by Rackat

Unfortunately, there are so many cheaters in SvS that it is not worth playing. Even though it is a good idea, it is basically worthless at this point because it is not about skill, it is about using exploits/glitches/cheats to win.

Now here is an area full of real gltches AND bad design.

Originally Posted by Aka

Seriously....I think this horse has been dead for days...and we all still be kickin' it.....

VERY TRUE. In fact - its now glue its been mushed so bad

[Poison elf]

I agree Max, I can not classify this at all as a glitch or bug. I definitely can classify it as terrible design flaw with a combination of effects. Stun, moving, circling, jumping, and parameters to hit, and opponent to miss.

Other skills don't give such a grouping, in combination. People have skipped combos in cutlass and dagger when we were given a little freedom, people can't have today. This also is no glitch or even bug, but again a choice Disney made.

These choices by Disney has made many, many people upset. This the result of only one thing, the limitations Disney has made to all the characters especially in reductions to their skills. If other skills were increased to even out equality, rather than constantly GIANT reductions rather than slight adjustments, there wouldn't be such problems. Half damage to already out of adjustment skills makes just more out of adjustment.

What I believe it really comes down to, is go take a look at the dozens of polls. What is your favorite weapon type polls. Every time more people vote for cutlass = stun/jumping than any other skill. So in my mind its what most people want since that is what they keep voting for as their favorite thing.
I just happen to be one a few that never have put my interests in this myself, thus usually bottoming my lists.

Guess I had to get that in before the glue dried.

[KRAKEN OF THE EAST]

yes i HATE it when people do this, extrememly annoying... a lv 24 kicked my butt when i was lv 32... i told him to stop jumping, then, i guess upset that i dissaproved of this 'technique', which was probably the only way he knows how to pvp, he starts telling me im a baby, i cant fight and im too dumb to figure out how to do it

Originally Posted by Sven Osymthe

Jumpings may not be used to be "frustrating" but by majority of the posts I have read... it apparently is to a lot if you choose to admit it or not. The reason for this thread being started was you were tired of people jumping in pvp... thus you were frustrated at the fact they keep doing so.

It is used to get out of the way... I agree that a lot who do this don't just do it for that purpose though. A lot who do are doing it for wins, yes. But its still a tactic never the less (those who are saying you shouldn't be able to jump with a weapon, you shouldn't be able to attack in the air... last time I checked POTCO is a GAME not REAL LIFE.) and it isn't just used by those who care about winning.

Not about fun? Not about fairness? Not about respect?

Last I checked PvP was two or more people fighting one another, that to some is fun.

It IS fair regardless of one person not knowing how to jump, it ISN'T fair if you ask the person to stop yet they refuse... but then again there are NO SET rules for pvp meaning pretty much, anything goes. If the people who are in the pvp AGREE to rules and one of them is "no jumping"... then yes, if the other does it it is unfair. However, if the other player refuses to abide by those rules... DON'T ACCEPT THE PVP... if your already in the pvp, LOG OUT.

The matter of respect... sure plenty of people who do jump don't care at all about their opponent but NOT EVERYONE IS THIS WAY.

You should word what you say a little better... you pretty much said anyone who jumps in pvp doesn't respect who they face, don't want to have a fun pvp, aren't fair, and only care about winning. I myself don't ALWAYS jump in a pvp and do admit it is tiresome at times but you can't say that EVERYONE who does this is pretty much a "cheater".

You also said before that someone whos moving around their opponent (I am assuming circling around so if I misunderstand then excuse me) is GOOD at pvp? If jumping in circles around your opponent is unfair... explain to me how doing the same thing minus the jump is unfair? Again, if I misunderstood, excuse me.

2 pirates fighting one another is fun. but using unnatural causes of the game to your advantage, ISNT. you can call it whatever you want, but either way, jumping is unfair, and should be fixed immediately

Originally Posted by Sven Osymthe

Circling/running around is pretty much the same as jumping around them. It IS possible to hit them with swords both ways. If you take someone into a pvp and have them run circles around you and you rotate to attack them then have them do the same motion but this time JUMP... you will be able to hit them both ways. It just appears harder to attack the jumper since he/she is moving up and down as well as around. What I meant by take someone to a pvp... have someone stand infront of you, if they aren't jumping of course you CAN hit them... but if you tell them "hold down space", guess what... you CAN hit them as well even when they are IN the AIR.

yes, but not everybody knows how to jump. a jumper should stop jumping if a person who doesnt know how asks them to regardless

[jason davy]

Originally Posted by Rackat

So, what it comes down to in the end is either you spend the time to learn the cheats/glitches/exploits of these sub-POTCO games, you play anyway and try to beat the cheat system, or you just play the game without PvP/SvSing.

You've got it exactly right Rackat. Unfortunately, although this is how it is, I think (almost) everyone would agree that it SHOULDN'T be this way. PvP and especially SvS should be areas of the game that people enjoy and are excited about, but unfortunately the constant glitching puts a damper on them. And people like me, well, we just PvP and SvS, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, but always just trying to make the best of whatever predicament we happen to be in at the present time.

Originally Posted by KRAKEN OF THE EAST

yes i HATE it when people do this, extrememly annoying... a lv 24 kicked my butt when i was lv 32... i told him to stop jumping, then, i guess upset that i dissaproved of this 'technique', which was probably the only way he knows how to pvp, he starts telling me im a baby, i cant fight and im too dumb to figure out how to do it

2 pirates fighting one another is fun. but using unnatural causes of the game to your advantage, ISNT. you can call it whatever you want, but either way, jumping is unfair, and should be fixed immediately

yes, but not everybody knows how to jump. a jumper should stop jumping if a person who doesnt know how asks them to regardless

I had the same thing happen to me Kraken. When I quit trying to fight, the little guy pounded me with insults. It upset me, I'm not gonna lie, but there's nothing we can do at this point. (except post about it on POF)

I also agree with your points, regardless of whether you consider it a glitch or a bad design, it certainly needs to be fixed. And if all the jumpers would actually stop jumping when asked to, I personally wouldn't find it to be much of an issue.

[Maximvs]

Originally Posted by jason

regardless of whether you consider it a glitch or a bad design, it certainly needs to be fixed.

Not this I can agree upon - along with the additon of Edward's suggestions of possibly not allowing certain weapons to work while jumping (note IMHO: jump = ok, hi-jump while swinging <> ok ) would be a good adjustment.